o- What does the Art and Antiques trade / dealerships, offer to Collectors and Buyers, that auction houses do not?
o-Que fait l’Art et Antiquités de commerce / concessionnaires, offrir aux collectionneurs et acheteurs, que maisons d’enchères n’ont pas?
o-Was bedeutet die Kunst und Antiquitäten Handel / Händler, die Sammler und Käufer anbieten, die Auktionshäuser nicht tun?
o-Che cosa significa il commercio d’arte e antiquariato / concessionarie, offrire ai collezionisti e acquirenti, che le case d’asta non fare?
o-Wat betekent het kunst-en antiekhandel / dealers, bieden Verzamelaars en kopers, dat veilinghuizen niet doen?
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
Posted in: Uncategorized
Ian Harris
December 3, 2011
It is interesting to ask what auctioneers offer for the up to 45% they take without having to buy their stock. Apart from providing a market place, absolutely nothing.
Dealers offer a selected stock, at a known, but usually negotiable, selling price. They are legally obliged to stand by the accuracy of the description of what they sell. If they sell on-line within the EU, they are committed to taking back any item, if returned promptly in the same condition. The buyer does not have to offer a reason for its return. Interestingly, in view of the preponderance of on-line auction buying, does this apply to auctions? And if not, why not?
Dealers also should build up a relationship with their customers, which salerooms generally don’t. They provide knowledge which the salerooms often lack. Auctioneers boast of some of the high prices they get – it should instead be a cause for shame that an item estimated at several hundred pounds sells for several hundred thousand- a demonstration of laziness and lack of knowledge.
Should auctions have the same legal obligations as dealers? My view is no. People buying at auction are taking a risk. People buying from dealers are paying the dealer’s profit for security and knowledge.
Auctions have largely gone from privates selling to dealers to dealers selling to privates. The salerooms with their massive publicity budgets and glossy catalogues have convinced privates that it is chic to be seen buying. They have had a long-term strategy to cut out dealers, although they deny it. Offering advice to buyers and sellers is ripe for manipulation. People think auctioneers are un-biased -but the higher the prices they get by selling retail, the more in commission and other charges they make.
The time for the trade to have made a stand against auctioneer greed was the introduction of the buying commission, which allows salerooms to make a profit without charging major vendors anything at all. Unfortunately, BADA took the view that the salerooms were our colleagues, instead of our enemies, which was my view. This failure of solidarity when it could have counted has led inevitably to today’s situation.
http://www.nbloom.com/
Alan
December 3, 2011
Alan Ehrlich • Clearly, either of these “distribution channels” – depending on the occasion – can be more advantageous for collectors/buyers than the other.
But, notably, two advantages that immediately spring to mind in the case of making an acquisition from the Arts and Antiques Trade or from a Dealer are: 1) You may be able to “negotiate down” the item-of-interest’s price, rather than need to “bid it up” in order to “win”… i.e. no direct competition during the purchase and 2) You can conclude your purchase “on the spot”… and probably take the item with you right away, rather than need to wait for the item to pass under the hammer on a specific day/time later on.
Mary Helen McCoy
December 4, 2011
A true Antique Dealer can be your partner…..that is to say they can be informed negotiator for art/antique lovers, collectors and museums. Having a recognized area of expertise they are a passionate specialist and not just a ” merchant ” on the street to “turn” goods. They can be a prudent advisor to guide you through passing whims or fancies in the market and they are a responsible player. If you chose to consign to an antique dealer they will ensure that your transactions are fully transparent with no extra charges and immediate payment……In public sales the seller fees can be as much as 15%; the buyer fees as much as 25%, if not more. This adds up!…..The seller is paid ONLY if the buyer completes the purchase. The transaction is never guaranteed….A reputable antique dealer can be a good partner both buying and selling!….Trust is the key factor and there are organizations in the antiques and art trade that allow only the top dealers in their field to belong who must “Vet” to belong.
http://www.maryhelenmccoy.com
Katherine
December 4, 2011
The opportunity to look over CAREFULLY what you intend to buy, the opportunity to make good relationships with specific dealers that carry what you are collecting, and the thrill of the hunt in looking over lots of antiques that could start you collecting in a whole new direction
http://www.bio-link.org
Carole
December 4, 2011
Carole Vander Eyk-Romano • An educational experience, providing additional information about the items to further enhance their collecting experience. Plus the personal story behind the object, people buy antiques because of the romance and mystique surrounding the object. Very important to spent the time sharing knowledge we have to develop the new younger collector.
http://www.lavenderpathantiques.com/
Carole
December 4, 2011
Certainly the interpersonal exchange helps build trust by having the time to converse with the collector, something an auctioneer can’t take the time to do. To survive in these times, we have to totally change the way we do business. We have to attract the younger collector, they are our future. They are more interested in what the object can do for them, their decor ect. than merely being old or having a historical provenance, that is not first on their list of requirements. The younger customer is not furnishing total period rooms, they want antiques as accents, they buy something because they like it or the way it looks. They are buying more for a decorating statement than an investment. I am speaking about the middle level collector, not those who have unlimited funds. The younger collector also has the world at their fingertips with the internet, they can find several of the same items and make their choice based on research and price. This customer is also harder to gain loyalty from. You have to really try even harder to build trust and loyalty. To keep them coming back into your shop you need to have fresh merchandise and displays as well as giving knowledgable and friendly service. The cliental we had in the 1980′s and 90′s was a different market and those customers are now selling not buying. Change can be good, if you don’t fight it and are open to new ideas. We can learn from our new young collectors too.
http://www.lavenderpathantiques.com/
Mary Helen McCoy
December 5, 2011
We have to educate the young collector. First we need to teach them a bit about history and make it interesting for them….You would be surprised what they DO NOT know about history. I find this is always a way to get a conversation going with a younger generation. Even if they are going to collect modern there is always a relationship as to what was happening in the world and the influence these events had on culture and decorative arts.
As for as fresh merchandise, that is a difficult thing to do when times are tough but just by changing the gallery or walls can make a huge difference. Presentation is a key if there are not enough funds to continue to buy. It is amazing how things look different when moved around. As for the interenet, having a web page is essential these days. Always offer to send someone additional photos of the object they are interested in. The middle level collector may well be an upper end collector. Offer terms for better pieces which may not be ideal but I have always done this in order to help people have a good piece.
Exhibitors
December 5, 2011
Hi Katherine, thank you for your comment. Would you agree that building up trust with a dealer in your specific collecting area is an important factor in the a dealer / client relationship? If so what can this add to the relationship?
Katherine
December 5, 2011
Katherine Whelchel • I think trust is a huge issue for me. I am thinking about an antique dealer I have been friends with for years. I collected Roseville pottery and my dealer encouraged me to look for “perfect” pieces which involved careful inspection for repairs, cracks and quality of glaze. My dealer also identified of some of the pieces of glassware I inherited from my grandmother when I couldn’t find them on the internet. This dealer has since gone into estate sales, but I still stay connected!
Another dealer who specialized in Van Briggle pottery learned that my husband’s grandmother knew the Van Briggles and painted some of the pottery (this was YEARS ago). He arranged for an interview with the grandmother and had her comments published in a local pottery magazine.
http://www.bio-link.org
Exhibitors
December 5, 2011
Hey Katherine, it seems that the relationship with your dealer provided an education and a friendship. Would you say that this dealer / client interaction is essential for collectors both new and old?. What would be your thoughts on the Auction House / Client relationship when compared?
What an interesting Van Briggles story. Isn’t this a small world ? Why not post the interview? love to read it.
Robert
December 5, 2011
Discounts on purchases rather than buyers’ premiums. No “buyer beware” policy.
http://www.robertjameswalsh.com/
Marie MIller
December 6, 2011
Knowledge about items being offered. Guarantee as to authenticity. Satisfaction guarantee.
http://www.antiquequilts.com/
Christian Shellard
December 6, 2011
I totally agree with your comments. I have sold pieces through auction and to be honest everytime I was left feeling dissapointed with the service that I recieved. If the item you are trying to sell is good but not amazing they look down on it. They often miss value the pieces, as for example when I worked in London as a restorer my boss bought a fine George II side table that a top auction valued as a Victorian copy.It later turned up in the book the age of mahogany. A very costly mistake indeed for the auction and the seller. Always when their so called experts have the slightest doubt they opt for the safe option and call your piece a copy. I recently had a charming George III mahogany tea table that I had valued by two members of BADA at between 4 -£6000. when I sent photos of it to Christies for a valuation, after almost 4 weeks of waiting they replied saying only sorry but your piece of furniture falls beneath our standard and we are unable to help you further.
The point that I would like to make is that an auction is just a business that’s interested just in their commision nothing more. With most antiques dealers worth their salt you will find a passion for the pieces that they have aquired, an understanding of the piece they are trying to sell and they sometimes will consider a piece for it’s charm or beauty in place of it’s potential value.
The problem is that many people have fear of doing business face to face with an antiques dealer. It’s far easier to drop the furniture off at the auction and wait for a cheque that arrives 3 months later.
Many dealers work alongside restorers, this way they have a fantastic all round knowledge of the furniture, unlike the expert valuers at the auction houses that would like to be able to say the same.
http://www.artempusrestauracion.com/
Katherine
December 6, 2011
The only auction experiences I’ve had are at family sales. I’ve never been to the big auctions. The auctioneer is trying to move stuff, so he is basically encouraging bids, which is not to my mind a “relationship”. Also I have gotten caught up in the momentum of an auction and either bid more than I planned, or bid on stuff I really didn’t need because no one else was bidding.
I can’t speak for all collectors, because I am a flaming extravert and love talking to people and finding things out. Introverts would probably be happier on chat sites like this one.
Also it seems that at a certain stage in one’s life, collecting takes on meaning. My grandmother for some reason collected elephants (She was a Republican-maybe that’s why). I got interested in collecting paperweights when my sister took up glass-blowing in college and knew the group that started Orient & Flume. She was also responsible for getting me going on Roseville pottery. She was into Pine Cone, which was expensive even in the late 80s, and I stuck to the plebian Snowberry.
In the 1980s and early 90s there used to be lots of antique shows in our local malls where you could pick up things fairly reasonably. Times have changed and there isn’t the same interest in “old stuff”. I have heard many people say that their kids want all new things and aren’t that interested in what’s been in the family for a few generations.
What gets people interested in collecting these days? I really would like to know!
http://www.bio-link.org
Edward
December 6, 2011
Edward tuten, NEAA certified • a collector and dealer establish a relationship of trust and commitment.. in reality a dealer can become a “picker” for his client and the collector has a source for his collection to grow in value,uniqueness, and quality.
http://www.teamestatesales.com/
Amy
December 6, 2011
I have found it depends on the item I am selling and also the Auction House I am dealing with. If selling through a house, it has to be a specialty item. They have specialists in different departments that take care of the assessing your item and finding collectors in their client file who would/could be interested. They work hard at letting the world know what they are selling via the internet and contacts. I have a great relationship with several specialists at this house and it has been a relationship that has been nurtured over 20 years or more, that is important. However, if it is of local interest I may take the item to a dealer or sell myself online. Of course, right now I have found that for Decorative Arts & collectables, the prices are not what they were 10 years ago. Certain things have held their value though, Scientific instruments most certainly have held their own.
http://www.lakeeffectgallery.com/
Carol
December 6, 2011
I agree with all the previous comments. I would add that the condition of a good dealer’s stock is often a big plus for a buyer–no need to see past grime or hairy spiders in the drawers. Also, a dealer will often allow buyers to try a piece in their home before finalizing a purchase. Auction prices look great, but don’t forget to add on the buyer’s premium, sales tax, shipping, repair, conservation, and/or upholstery to the cost of that item. And if that piece you loved in the preview room won’t fit through your door? Well, that can be a very costly mistake.
http://www.digiovanniandco.com
Helaine
December 7, 2011
Helaine Fendelman • An individual dealer offers extraordinary personal contact!
http://www.helainefendelman.com/
Robert Walsh
December 31, 2011
Yes, everyone knows the buyer’s premium only applies to auctions, not to dealers. My point is that people tend to ignore the fact that they are paying a premium when they buy at auctions, like they ignore the sales tax when they tell someone how much they paid for an item.
So, having a tag line of NO BUYER’S PREMIUM in a dealer or show advertisement would emphasize the fact that auctions do charge a buyer’s premium while dealers or show managers never do. It is a way of making it clear that a person could save money by buying from a dealer rather than at an auction.
http://www.robertjameswalsh.com/